Mstyslav Chernov: "Almost Every War in the World Has Been Started on the Premise of a Lie"
This interview was conducted by journalist Ana Rita Guerra, a board member of the Association of Foreign Press Correspondents in the United States (AFPC-USA).
A new documentary, 2000 Meters to Andriivka, goes beyond headlines and shows the brutality of combat on the frontlines of the war in Ukraine. Journalist and filmmaker Mstyslav Chernov embedded with the Third Assault Brigade as Ukrainian forces tried to recapture the small village of Andriivka, in eastern Ukraine, during the counteroffensive of 2023.
Alongside helmet footage and drone videos, the documentary offers a unique, immersive, and first-person point of view of the war. We spoke with Mr. Chernov, who won an Oscar for his previous documentary, 20 Days in Mariupol, during his trip to Los Angeles to promote the documentary. The film is now playing in theaters across America, the UK and Ireland, with further distribution plans to be announced.
It’s getting increasingly difficult to get accurate information from the frontlines. There’s a lot of disinformation and even AI, deepfakes. People are having a hard time distinguishing, “Is this real, is this not real?” I imagine that, since the beginning of the war in 2014, you've seen this evolving very much. Has it become worse today?
It has become more difficult to do what we do in so many ways. First of all, many countries consider information as a weapon. And therefore, by extension, they consider journalists and filmmakers as targets, as soldiers, which we aren't. But if there is a drone operator that sees a journalist and targets it, targets the journalist, or a sniper seeing the ‘press’ sign still shoots you, that tells you that you're not protected anymore, that you are a target. So that's one thing.
The second is that technology has changed. The reason why we don't see much reporting from the frontline right now – there is also a security reason to that. It's just become so dangerous to get to the ground zero that two years later, after ‘2000 Meters to Andriivka’, it would be impossible to do what we've done back then. The weapons are so much more precise. The robotic systems are so widespread. The drones are everywhere that you just can't walk and you can't shoot. So it's also that. It's not available anymore. All you see is drone footage because no human can walk.
The third assault brigade that we're telling the story of, right now they carry some of these assaults we see in 2000 Meters to Andriivka. They carry some of those assault operations entirely with unmanned systems. So drones rolling instead of people on the ground with the machine guns. Drones observing the battlefield, attack drones coming and hitting the enemy. The mother drone is flying over the battlefield, giving the signal to other drones. All that is real. And for a human, for a journalist who doesn't have a gun, who has no means to protect himself or herself, to survive in those conditions it's unreal. It's impossible. So that's another challenge that we are facing.
You mentioned that in the documentary. You say you cannot wear “press” anymore because that would make you even more of a target than a soldier. Was it always like that since the beginning, or is this something that happened now in the full-scale war?
Depending on where you are, in which war you are, that was always the case. I wouldn't say this is unique to Ukraine. And I would also say that, of course, whenever you can, you wear the journalist vest. That still sometimes can be a protection, or at least makes you less of a priority target, because they know you don't have a weapon.
But still, I know that when we were walking there following Fedya, who was carrying the flag, with a camera, we would be a primary target. Because Russians knew that picture is important, that the picture we were going to make would mean a lot for the entire country, would signify another victory of Ukrainian soldiers. So, yeah, you are a target because there are pictures that they just don't want you to make.
They don't want those images of resistance to infect the rest of the battle.
Yes. The battle is for names. The battle is for symbols. The battle is for images of victory. Not just for physical spaces.
Where do you think the war is right now? We've had back and forth, we have negotiations that have stalled, we have ultimatums. It doesn't seem like this is close to a resolution. What is your assessment?
Mstyslav Chernov
Interestingly, almost none of this important news that we hear every day from the negotiations, from possible sanctions, from everything that is happening in the political space, almost none of that makes it to the frontline. For the people on the frontline, words have very little significance. Actions do mean something but words, no. And that's what they hope when I go and I talk to these guys. That's what they hope, that all the speaking translates into actual actions. But what I know for sure is that every day that people are not taking actions, every day that in the political space there is another delay, more people are dying in Ukraine. If the war was over, if the peace was achieved the day before yesterday, maybe those civilians who died in Kyiv overnight would be alive.
So do you think that Ukraine will overcome this?
Ukraine? Certainly. Just by watching Fedya, just by watching this. These guys do the impossible against all the odds. And relying only on themselves in that, and on their community. I have absolutely no doubt that Ukraine will survive and then will exist because, beyond all the terrible things that happened to my country, something amazing happened. The civil society, the identity, the collective identity, the Ukrainian identity was strengthened and built on the tragedies that happened to us. And this made us stronger.
What do you hope this documentary can achieve? Because one of the things that I've noticed is that the war in Ukraine has kind of faded in terms of the media, and people are more preoccupied with other conflicts. And when you don't have a spotlight, you don't have as much pressure to help and solve the situation.
And not to say that other places in the world where people are suffering and dying are less important. Every single human life, whether it's in the Middle East or in Ukraine or in Africa or in Latin America, every single life matters. And the spotlight has to be on all the pain in the world. And it just shouldn't exist, right? And wars shouldn't exist. But for me, as a Ukrainian, of course, I wish people would pay more attention to what is happening in Ukraine, to the humanitarian crisis that is happening in Ukraine, to the personal tragedies that we live through every day.
And trying to make big statements with film is condemning yourself to fail. That's what I learned. However big attention your film gets, whatever statement you make is never gonna be enough to stop the war. But what I can do is to ensure that the memory of those who lost their lives is living in History. For Ukraine and for those who will want to look back and see how this war really unfolded.
And at the same time, if we talk about international audiences, I just want it to become a very simple message, a simple picture of men trying to push the criminal, to fight the criminal out of their house. The criminal who came, burned down half of the house, killed members of our families and is trying to get more. And these men are just trying to kick them out. I think if that simple message, which has no political context or background, cannot be really contested or questioned, because that's the basic reality of what's happening. If that simple message gets to the audience, if they see themselves in these men, then my job is done.
This documentary highlights how important it is to have voices and eyes that document, as a journalist or a documentarian, these things. Do you plan on continuing to do this? What is the future for you as a journalist/documentarian?
Well, with journalism and public media now under scrutiny, it is a very hard time for both independent journalism and public media. We see the PBS and Frontline with whom this film was made losing funding, and I feel very sad about it because these films that were made, both ‘2000 Meters to Andriivka’ and ’20 Days in Mariupol’, wouldn't be possible without Frontline, without AP, so without the independent journalism and public media. That just wouldn't be there. Those films wouldn't be made. And I hope we get through this difficult time.
I hope the public will recognize how important it is to have independent journalism and public media. Because almost every war in the world, especially invasions, has been started on the premise of a lie. Russia invaded Ukraine because they lied to their people about why they do it. And we live in a time when it's very easy to create a lie, easier than ever. And therefore, the journalism that protects truth and documentary filmmaking that protects truth and preserves it is just the only way to survive. Because it's so easy to lie right now to the public. It's so easy to create a lie. It's easy for people who want to start a war to start a war. It has never been easier to start a war. And therefore, journalists have to fight harder to prevent lies from spreading.
So we will continue seeing things from you?
Yes, for sure. Until Ukraine is in peace, I will be doing what I'm doing. I will be doing films about war. I just hope my next film is about the ending of this war. I really hope so.
